My personal opinion is against fasting and training.

No matter

You should lift first, then do cardio. Cardio first will kill your weight training. It's more important for general fitness to increase muscle mass.

FWIW - Distance running will catabolize muscle and subsequently increase fat storage. 

Well im going to give it a shot anyway, ive heard way to many good results from this aproach

the plan is
pre WO 1 fruit
run (3-4x/week)
lift
post wo whey dex/malto/creatine
eat paleo 4hr window
fast 19hrs
repeat

just makes more sense to run after fasting maximize fat loss, then lift, then eat and rest/sleep
also i really think this pattern would actually mimic the hunting process

[/quote]You aren't training in a fasted state.

Your shake isn't remotely Paleo.
[/quote]

yeah i know, but ive been listening to alot of robb wolf and he doesnt seem too opposed to it, the whey or creatine, at least for short periods, not sure about the dex/malto.

the program im using incorporates sprints, but only about 1/week, ive been running about 6 months now too

I'm just gonna throw a fasting theory out here and see the response, but maybe you'll be able to take it into account with your own training.

Here is your typical Paleolithic band of people.

Let's say this is a band that is currently relying on hunting to sustain themselves; e.g. edible fruit/vegetables are scarce during this particular season. The best way to provide enough food for the people is to get a big kill by hunting.

Their previous kill has sustained the tribe for several days, stripped to the bone and the marrow taken out of the bone. However, they need to get themselves another animal to sustain themselves. All the food is gone: they are now in a state of "fasting" (though this isn't something they are forcing on themselves; they have no choice but to go without food).

So this band goes out on the hunt. It could take a few hours for the band to locate a herd of animals. The biggest challenge, however, is getting a kill. The band could be lucky and get a kill on their first attempt. More often than not, it's likely they'd have not managed to get a kill (taking into account that, while human's are obviously very intelligent beings, they lack the speed and strength other animals possess). It could take anywhere from a few hours to days, maybe longer, to finally get their prized kill. During this time, they are in their fasted state. Only after they get their kill, can they finally gorge themselves with food!

I guess the point I'm making is that Paleo humans probably spent a lot of time "fasting". They didn't have the availability of food we have today. Even with fruits/vegetables available, those would be minimal calories compared to the large amount available an animal. Perhaps over our 200,000 years of existence, man's body has adapted to perform better physically when food consumption was zero/low because that was when the body had to work hard to get food.

Personally, I felt more alert and physically capable when I used Ori Hofmekler fasting theory from the Warrior Diet (20 hours fasting, 4 hours over-eating). And I literally ate nothing until after I had done my weight training/physical activity for that day; I didn't notice any lack of power or strength from fasting.

I think there may be some evolutionary logic to fasting... but we can never be truly sure these days!

totally right on chris

I don't think paleo people were that strong. On the contrary, I think they were skinnier and lankier than us and were not that muscular. My evidence is looking at modern day hunter gatherers, they don't look like elite athletes. Therefore, you can't train like a caveman if you want to look like (and feel like) and athlete.