Author Topic: Calcium  (Read 19436 times)

marika

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #165 on: August 22, 2009, 06:26:30 AM »
Here's some more studies showing the importance of K2 in preventing and treating osteoporosis, there's a ton of studies shown, here's just a few:

http://www.springboard4health.com/notebook/v_k2.html
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In the group with vitamin K, bone loss at the femoral neck was retarded by 35%-40% compared to the other mineral vitamin D group. It is stated that if these effects continued over decades, lifelong supplementation could postpone fractures by up to 10 years.

Further research of the D-Bavis study using calcium (1000 mg), vitamin D (10 ug) and vitamin K (200 mcg) per day, supported the previous findings. They also found a significant increase in bone mineral content and density in the vitamin K group.

Extremely high doses 45-90 mg/day of vitamin K2 are successfully used in the treatment of osteoporosis in Japan. 18-20 These doses of K2 exceed RDA levels by 1000 fold and no side effects were noted.

Most of our dietary vitamin K1 comes from vegetables - about 80%. Vitamin K2 is obtained mainly from the "good" bacteria produced in the digestive tract and is also found in certain fermented foods.

Offline Warren Dew

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #166 on: August 23, 2009, 06:33:20 AM »
I actually wasn't ever able to get the grassfed tallow, I've just been using pastured pork lard. Since hogs aren't ruminant animals, I don't believe that the lard will have K2. The grassfed beef that I've been getting has some, but I think that the grassfed cheeses I've been eating recently have a lot more.

I don't know about the pork lard.  I do know the highest levels of vitamin K are found in marine mammals like sea cows.  Given the level you note in regular ground beef, the levels in tallow should be 5-7 times higher, since regular ground beef is only 15-20% fat.  That's consistent with the levels in cheese, which are basically all fat.

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I wonder if that's one reason I've stopped having the muscle cramping and my skin has gotten softer? Maybe I'm getting more K2 (the MK-7 variety) now, and perhaps I was a bit deficient in that before?

I think the skin is probably a result of the amount and quality of fats in the diet.  Mine improved markedly when I got rid of all trans fats and started making sure I got more omega 3s.  If you're eating a lot more cheese than you were fat in your meat before, that could be it, but I think you'd get the same effect from consuming the same amount of grass fed beef tallow.  Note that the part you actually consumed would help - the stuff that gets left on the pan on on the plate obviously doesn't help.


marika

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #167 on: August 23, 2009, 07:34:11 AM »
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but I think you'd get the same effect from consuming the same amount of grass fed beef tallow.

Likely so, except that I haven't been able to get my hands on any yet....:-(

Offline paleo bushman

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #168 on: August 25, 2009, 09:25:45 PM »
PaleoCalcium diet

mg Calium per calorie

chicken/goose eggs 0.33
bass, freshwater mixed 0.70
snapper 0.31
northern pike 0.62
sunfish 0.90
wild trout 0.57
walleye 1.18
sardines w/bone 1.83
crayfish 0.73
shrimp, mixed 0.39
crab 0.61
lobster 0.62
crickets 0.62
oysters 0.65
clams 0.62

all greens
broccoli  1.38
string green beans 1.20
carrot 0.81
celery  2.50
cucumber 1.17
kale 2.70
lettuce, iceberg 1.28

apricots 0.27
watermelon 0.23
oranges 0.88
lemons 0.89
tangerine 0.70
dates 0.23
blackberries 0.68
kiwi 0.56
olives 0.76
nectarine 0.26
strawberries 0.50
prickly pear  1.36
pineapple 0.26
cherries 0.21

almonds 0.46
sesame seeds 1.70

cheats: wheat bread 0.53, goat milk 1.94, cheese 3.07, write a book, make a million.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 09:30:12 PM by paleo bushman »

marika

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #169 on: August 26, 2009, 02:58:25 AM »
Paleo Bushman, just wanted to point out that almonds and sesame seeds aren't considered good sources of calcium because their calcium is bound up in oxalates.

You can see in this table that in although an ounce of almonds has 80mg of calcium, we are only able to absorb 17mg of that. And for hulled sesame seeds, an ounce only has 37mg, of which we can only absorb 8mg. Unhulled are better (not sure if I've ever seen those though), having 381mg of which we can absorb 58mg.
http://www.moondragon.org/nutrition/calciumtable.html

marika

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #170 on: September 02, 2009, 06:04:30 AM »
Another very good article from Dr. William Davis on the importance of K2 in bone health:

http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2007/12/food-sources-of-vitamin-k2.html

Quote
-Vitamin K2 supplementation (via frequent natto consumption or pharmaceutical doses of K2) substantially improves bone health.

--The MK-4 form of vitamin K2 is short-lived, lasting only 3-4 hours in the body. The MK-7 form, in contrast, the form in natto, lasts several days. MK-7 and MK-8-10 are extremely well absorbed, virtually complete.

--Bone health benefits have been shown for both the MK-7 and MK-4 forms.

...work by Schurgers et al have shown that K1 absorption is poor, no more than 10%, but increases significantly when vegetables are eaten in the presence of oils.

I like natto but definitely don't want to eat it every day. Plus since it's a legume, it's not Paleo. I posted a list a page back in this thread of other foods high in MK-7, which includes hard cheeses (fermented cheeses) and to a much smaller degree, sauerkrauts:

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MK-7 Sources (mcg/100g)

    * Natto - 1103.4 (0% MK-4)
    * Hard Cheeses - 76.3 (6% MK-4)
    * Soft Cheeses - 56.5 (6.5% MK-4)
    * Curd Cheeses - 24.8 (1.6% MK-4)
    * Sauerkraut - 4.8
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 06:08:25 AM by marika »

marika

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #171 on: September 02, 2009, 06:13:01 AM »
More on the importance of K2 for bone health:

http://www.springboard4health.com/notebook/v_k2.html

Quote
Vitamin K Supplementation Retards Postmenopausal Bone Loss

In the Maastricht osteo study, 188 postmenopausal women between 50 and 60 years old were treated for 3 years with daily supplements. 16 There was a placebo group which received only maltodextrin and the second group received minerals, 500 mg/day of calcium, 150 mg/day of magnesium, 10 mg/day of zinc and 320 IU/day of vitamin D3. The third group received these minerals plus the vitamin D3 and l mg/day of vitamin K1. The group without vitamin K benefited only transiently. In the group with vitamin K, bone loss at the femoral neck was retarded by 35%-40% compared to the other mineral vitamin D group. It is stated that if these effects continued over decades, lifelong supplementation could postpone fractures by up to 10 years.

256 postmenopausal women were studied by Jie, et. al. in the EPOZ study. They found an inverse correlation between long term vitamin K intake and arterosclerotic aorta calcification.....A subsequent study of 4500 participants of the Rotterdam study by Gelejinse, et. al. reports a much stronger negative correlation between long term, lower than adequate intake of vitamin K2 (menaquinone) and aortic calcification.

...vitamin K2 was shown to decrease circulating cholesterol concentrations, suppress progression of vascular plaque, thickening in the vessels, and pulmonary atherosclerosis. 23 In a study of rats on arterial calcification, vitamin K2 completely prevented calcification, whereas vitamin K1 had little effect. 24 A three year study involving postmenopausal women (a group which is generally known to be at risk for vascular illness), the elastic properties of the carotid artery were recorded using ultrasound. A supplement of 1 mg/day of vitamin K1 completely abolished age-related arterial stiffening

Vitamin K2 is obtained mainly from the "good" bacteria produced in the digestive tract and is also found in certain fermented foods. 26 The absorbability of the vitamin K2 from the GI tract bacteria is uncertain.

marika

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #172 on: September 02, 2009, 06:18:15 AM »
One more excellent article on K2 and bone health:

http://www.drpasswater.com/nutrition_library/Schurgers2.html
Quote
Even if you have more than enough calcium, vitamin D and osteocalcin in your blood, bone formation will be greatly impaired without adequate vitamin K to activate the osteocalcin so that it takes the calcium from the blood and puts the calcium into the bone tissues.

Vitamin K2 is of bacterial origin. Therefore, we find it in fermented food products, where the bacteria are used as starters fermentation culture. Typical fermented foods are cheese, curd cheese and sauerkraut. The best source of vitamin K2 is the traditional Japanese dish natto.

Offline PliestoceneDream

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #173 on: September 09, 2009, 07:55:54 PM »
Just some food for thought:

Neanderthal ate 80% meat (that's the most minimal figure I've ever found, most other sources put the number closer to 95-100) and their bones were not only thicker than ours but also denser.

Eat some greens, get out in the sun, and do weighted exercises: best thing you can do for your bones.

Offline 21st-century caveman

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #174 on: October 08, 2009, 09:22:50 AM »
All of the above sounds like good information.  My 2 cents?  From what Dr. Loren Cordain says, it's a matter of dietary acid/alkaline balance.  The more acidic the diet, the more calcium you pee away.  link:  http://www.thepaleodiet.com/faqs/#Calcium

Also, look at the page which is linked at the bottom of that section, on "Acid-Base Balance and Your Health"  - http://www.thepaleodiet.com/nutritional_tools/acid.shtml

Fortunately, if you're eating paleo foods, you won't have a problem with getting enough calcium, and retaining it.  The paleo diet contains plenty of calcium, and and the diet also has a good acid/base balance, so calcium will be retained in the system and not leached from your bones and excreted.

--Doug

marika

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #175 on: October 16, 2009, 06:15:18 AM »
Just wanted to share this from the zero-carb (meat-only) forum, someone there just got testing done:

http://forum.zeroinginonhealth.com/showthread.php?tid=2108&pid=129740#pid129740

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My alk phos is 38, very low rate of bone turnover. Calcium level 8.6, normal...Albumin 4.1 very good....
So, if a 50 yo, female can show these results on only 5 months of ZC........well?

Sounds good!!


Offline Posy

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #176 on: October 16, 2009, 12:53:38 PM »
Ooo thanks for posting that Marika!  I notice she’s 50 so I dug out my last test results from July of 08 to compare her ZC to my paleo (and drinking coffee then) just for kicks.  This is how they compare…my numbers-the normal range-her numbers.  What surprised me the most was her higher glucose on ZC, I thought that was odd. 

Total Chol 222...(H) 0-200...hers 189
LDL 152…*1-129...hers 107
HDL 59.4...40.0-60.0...hers 70
Triglycerides 55...30-200...hers 59
(My ratio 3.7 (Low)…4.0-5.0...hers is probably half that, I never can remember how to figure those!)

*100 mg/dl or less if coronary heart disease (CHD) is present
*129 mg/dl or less if no CHD and two or more risk factors
*159 mg/dl or less if no CHD

Fasting glucose 73...70-110...hers 84
Calcium 9.7...8.3-10.3...hers 8.6
Albumin 4.3...3.4-4.8...hers 4.1
Alk phos 81...50-136...hers 38 (low)
I don’t see a hgb on mine.

Doing a quick look for low alk phos I came across mixed info and don’t have time right now to check further but it looked like it could mean nothing or could indicate a problem?

marika

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #177 on: October 16, 2009, 02:46:53 PM »
Thanks for sharing your info too Posy!!

I don't know anything about those tests, but I did a quick search on the Alk Phos and found this:

http://arthritis-symptom.com/procedures/alk-phos.htm
Quote
ALK PHOS

This is a blood test that measures the amount of the enzyme ALP (alkaline phosphatase.
When it is present in large amounts, it may signify bone or liver disease or a tumor.


From a little more research, it seems that a low number is not a concern, but a high number is.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2009, 02:51:41 PM by marika »

Offline Water Lily

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #178 on: October 16, 2009, 03:07:49 PM »
I am taking MK-7 in supplement form because of dental issues. I haven't noticed any improvement yet, but I don't always remember to take them.
Water Lily
No grain, no pain.

marika

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #179 on: December 02, 2009, 05:51:25 PM »
Interesting article on calcium:

http://www.ellenskitchen.com/faqs/calcium.html

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You must have vitamin D from supplements or sunshine to absorb dietary calcium. Daily, one half hour of sun on normally oily skin provides sufficient vitamin D precursor.

Calcium is more poorly absorbed by folks eating a high protein diet, or high phosphorus foods (such as soda pop and milk). Calcium also is not well absorbed from sesame seeds unless they are ground or pulverized....

Research with pregnant and lactating women in rural African communities has shown that they maintain good bones on a much lower intake, less than 400 milligrams per day. These women get plenty of sunshine, use highly bio-available sources and their diets do not contain excessive phosphorus or protein.

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #179 on: December 02, 2009, 05:51:25 PM »

 


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