The official unofficial FAQ of CAVEMANforum
In the group with vitamin K, bone loss at the femoral neck was retarded by 35%-40% compared to the other mineral vitamin D group. It is stated that if these effects continued over decades, lifelong supplementation could postpone fractures by up to 10 years. Further research of the D-Bavis study using calcium (1000 mg), vitamin D (10 ug) and vitamin K (200 mcg) per day, supported the previous findings. They also found a significant increase in bone mineral content and density in the vitamin K group.Extremely high doses 45-90 mg/day of vitamin K2 are successfully used in the treatment of osteoporosis in Japan. 18-20 These doses of K2 exceed RDA levels by 1000 fold and no side effects were noted.Most of our dietary vitamin K1 comes from vegetables - about 80%. Vitamin K2 is obtained mainly from the "good" bacteria produced in the digestive tract and is also found in certain fermented foods.
I actually wasn't ever able to get the grassfed tallow, I've just been using pastured pork lard. Since hogs aren't ruminant animals, I don't believe that the lard will have K2. The grassfed beef that I've been getting has some, but I think that the grassfed cheeses I've been eating recently have a lot more.
I wonder if that's one reason I've stopped having the muscle cramping and my skin has gotten softer? Maybe I'm getting more K2 (the MK-7 variety) now, and perhaps I was a bit deficient in that before?
but I think you'd get the same effect from consuming the same amount of grass fed beef tallow.
-Vitamin K2 supplementation (via frequent natto consumption or pharmaceutical doses of K2) substantially improves bone health.--The MK-4 form of vitamin K2 is short-lived, lasting only 3-4 hours in the body. The MK-7 form, in contrast, the form in natto, lasts several days. MK-7 and MK-8-10 are extremely well absorbed, virtually complete.--Bone health benefits have been shown for both the MK-7 and MK-4 forms. ...work by Schurgers et al have shown that K1 absorption is poor, no more than 10%, but increases significantly when vegetables are eaten in the presence of oils.
MK-7 Sources (mcg/100g) * Natto - 1103.4 (0% MK-4) * Hard Cheeses - 76.3 (6% MK-4) * Soft Cheeses - 56.5 (6.5% MK-4) * Curd Cheeses - 24.8 (1.6% MK-4) * Sauerkraut - 4.8
Vitamin K Supplementation Retards Postmenopausal Bone LossIn the Maastricht osteo study, 188 postmenopausal women between 50 and 60 years old were treated for 3 years with daily supplements. 16 There was a placebo group which received only maltodextrin and the second group received minerals, 500 mg/day of calcium, 150 mg/day of magnesium, 10 mg/day of zinc and 320 IU/day of vitamin D3. The third group received these minerals plus the vitamin D3 and l mg/day of vitamin K1. The group without vitamin K benefited only transiently. In the group with vitamin K, bone loss at the femoral neck was retarded by 35%-40% compared to the other mineral vitamin D group. It is stated that if these effects continued over decades, lifelong supplementation could postpone fractures by up to 10 years.256 postmenopausal women were studied by Jie, et. al. in the EPOZ study. They found an inverse correlation between long term vitamin K intake and arterosclerotic aorta calcification.....A subsequent study of 4500 participants of the Rotterdam study by Gelejinse, et. al. reports a much stronger negative correlation between long term, lower than adequate intake of vitamin K2 (menaquinone) and aortic calcification....vitamin K2 was shown to decrease circulating cholesterol concentrations, suppress progression of vascular plaque, thickening in the vessels, and pulmonary atherosclerosis. 23 In a study of rats on arterial calcification, vitamin K2 completely prevented calcification, whereas vitamin K1 had little effect. 24 A three year study involving postmenopausal women (a group which is generally known to be at risk for vascular illness), the elastic properties of the carotid artery were recorded using ultrasound. A supplement of 1 mg/day of vitamin K1 completely abolished age-related arterial stiffeningVitamin K2 is obtained mainly from the "good" bacteria produced in the digestive tract and is also found in certain fermented foods. 26 The absorbability of the vitamin K2 from the GI tract bacteria is uncertain.
Even if you have more than enough calcium, vitamin D and osteocalcin in your blood, bone formation will be greatly impaired without adequate vitamin K to activate the osteocalcin so that it takes the calcium from the blood and puts the calcium into the bone tissues.Vitamin K2 is of bacterial origin. Therefore, we find it in fermented food products, where the bacteria are used as starters fermentation culture. Typical fermented foods are cheese, curd cheese and sauerkraut. The best source of vitamin K2 is the traditional Japanese dish natto.
My alk phos is 38, very low rate of bone turnover. Calcium level 8.6, normal...Albumin 4.1 very good....So, if a 50 yo, female can show these results on only 5 months of ZC........well?
ALK PHOSThis is a blood test that measures the amount of the enzyme ALP (alkaline phosphatase.When it is present in large amounts, it may signify bone or liver disease or a tumor.
You must have vitamin D from supplements or sunshine to absorb dietary calcium. Daily, one half hour of sun on normally oily skin provides sufficient vitamin D precursor.Calcium is more poorly absorbed by folks eating a high protein diet, or high phosphorus foods (such as soda pop and milk). Calcium also is not well absorbed from sesame seeds unless they are ground or pulverized....Research with pregnant and lactating women in rural African communities has shown that they maintain good bones on a much lower intake, less than 400 milligrams per day. These women get plenty of sunshine, use highly bio-available sources and their diets do not contain excessive phosphorus or protein.